Talk:Weapons
Hi, I've been editing the Weapons page and adding my currently gained weapons so far. I can't figure out which Synthesis book corresponds to them, so I'm just putting up stats for now. My real question pertains to the size of each character's weapon table. Would it be better if each weapon line were split into a separate table within each character's listing? I'll use Kanata as an example of what I mean and edit this question once it's done. LanceHeart 18:49, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Edit: Here's the direct link to the new style for weapons. What do you think? Weapons#Kanata LanceHeart 18:58, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I don't like the excesive cell padding on the last couple tables. Maybe combine it into a single table but keep the bold header lines to seperate the different weapon sections. Coax75ohm 19:36, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I don't really have any strong feelings one way or the other--they're more or less segregated by weapon line within the standard listing, but this does make it a little clearer. On the other hand, the separate tables have different widths for their columns, which makes scrolling up and down and comparing stats between weapons of different "lines" a little more work, since it's not all in one straight column. It also adds to the overall length of the page with the extra header lines and spacing between the tables. If people find it easier to use or like it better one way or the other, I'm willing to be persuaded--I'm not particularly wedded to any specific format, so if any other contributors or users want to weigh in, I'd like to hear your opinions. Conjoiner Felka 19:40, July 24, 2010 (UTC) The excessive padding on the last tables is caused by the minimum height of the tables being somewhat fixed. I can change those in if needed, much like the column widths. The bigger problem will likely be the added length, which is what I'm not liking myself. Mind you, this is only a demo and I'll revert it if you don't want it. LanceHeart 19:44, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I made an example of what I was thinking: Weapons#Rizelea Coax75ohm 19:46, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I like that more. I'm in favor of using Coax75ohm's version. LanceHeart 19:49, July 24, 2010 (UTC) I like the concept, however it looks kinda cramped. Why not just make a seperate table for each group with a level 3 header as the name? I think that might look a bit nicer. -Edit: Made an example of what I'm thinking with Kanata's Gaioki Nesirus 22:23, July 24, 2010 (UTC) For me, the point of the page is to scan the columns to see which weapon is better. To that end, unaligned columns, large gaps and having to scroll around (I use a laptop while playing) would be detrimental. Also, this discussion would be better if it were on Talk:Weapons Coax75ohm 23:01, July 24, 2010 (UTC) Sorry for the delay in response--Saturdays I have pen-and-paper roleplaying with friends, so I've been away from my computer. My personal feelings fall more in line with those of Coax75ohm, where being able to scroll up and down and keep your eyes on the same place on the screen to compare weapon strengths feels more useful than making separate subheadings for each weapon "line". On the other hand, 30 or so separate weapons for each character may be more than one screen's worth, so I could see an argument for having subheadings to allow easy "jumping" to particular portions of the list. Let's see if we can come to a consensus before choosing--it's not my intention to run this blog autocratically or anything--I feel that the project belongs to everyone, so it's important to me that we talk things through when we have differences of opinion (I don't think that we could call this an "argument" by any stretch of the imagination--I just want to make my position on the matter of disagreements clear in advance). Conjoiner Felka 04:07, July 25, 2010 (UTC) I'm sure we're all trying to be civil here. Anyway, to reiterate, the column alignment (per character) is the most important thing to me in terms of usability. Keeping the gap between weapon sections as small as possible while still maintaining aesthetics and readability would be nice, but not critical, since I've noticed the SS class weapons all seem to have the same numerical values on a per character basis, this makes those last few rows less important. Coax75ohm 05:01, July 25, 2010 (UTC) Addendum: If the SS class weapons all have the same value, we should add a note in the intro text. Coax75ohm 05:06, July 25, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I was waiting to reach Chapter 11 before adding a definitive note about the SS weapons having the same stats. I can also confirm that the lingering SS weapons are definitely part of their own weapon lines. Problem is, I'm guessing I need to be at Chapter 12 to get the whole listing. I'll run through the list later and try to finish up everyone's weapon lists (though stats won't be added for some). LanceHeart 07:49, July 25, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, all the SS weapons will have the same stats--it's a nice little perk that lets you select the one that's the easiest for you to make, or that you like the skin the best for without having to sacrifice anything from combat effectiveness. I can add some text to that effect at the top of the page--right now I'm going through and creating the individual pages for the weapons themselves as they become available for me through the shop/synthesis--since my old savefiles are gone along with the PS3 that was stolen, I've taken the opportunity to start recording which recipes come from which Synthesis Manual, which has definitely slowed down my progress through the game (my desktop starting to bluescreen on me hasn't helped, either…had to spend a day and a half backing it up before taking it in for service yesterday, so I'm on my laptop atm). Do we have a consensus on the format for the weapons tables yet? Conjoiner Felka 17:18, July 27, 2010 (UTC) Haven't really paid much attention to the new weapon tables, but I'm starting to see that a very distinct pattern with every single weapon line. Perhaps a template with a fixed width for each column could fix any problems that would arise from Nesirus' formatting, but I'm really liking the simplicity of Coax75ohm's tables. I've continued them in the style of Coax75ohm's for now. LanceHeart 17:26, July 27, 2010 (UTC) I am unfamilair with wiki tables, so making them with fixed column widths (which I agree is really important) is beyond me. I'll finish up the weapon page using Coax75ohm's format. I would like to see the sub category quick links in the "Content" to box allow users to jump to specific weapons however, is this doable with a single table? Nesirus 05:19, July 29, 2010 (UTC) Edit- I would like to format the negative figures to appear red, anyone have an idea on how to do so? Also, are the 0's necessary in the cells where there is no value? I did something to make it possible to jump toward specific managraphic sections in one table on that respective section's page. It requires adding a level 3 header in the cell where the name of the weapon is. It's not the most elegant solution, but it works for what we need (i.e. fast lookup of huge RPG stat tables). To make text appear red, you need to add TEXT HERE to the source. As for the 0's, I'm a stickler for seeing the value because having a blank square makes me think the data isn't available rather than worth nothing. LanceHeart 13:15, July 29, 2010 (UTC) Agree on filling in with 0s in the tables--explicitly shows that we have that info, and that it's 0, rather than suggesting the possibility that we missed something or forgot to enter data. I'll add the level 3 header tags to the subsections, if it hasn't been done yet--I've got code compiling, so I have precious little else to do at work while that's running. Conjoiner Felka 16:31, July 29, 2010 (UTC)